Blog Banter 10?

Apparently, we’re doing another blog banter.  Nothing on CrazyKinux’s website yet, and many of the blogs are not featuring a full blog roll at the end, so I’m not sure what to make of it, but…whatever.  (-:

Welcome to the tenth installment of the EVE Blog Banter, the monthly EVE Online blogging extravaganza created by CrazyKinux. The EVE Blog Banter involves an enthusiastic group of gaming bloggers, a common topic within the realm of EVE Online, and a week to post articles pertaining to the said topic. The resulting articles can either be short or quite extensive, either funny or dead serious, but are always a great fun to read! Any questions about the EVE Blog Banter should be directed here. Check out other EVE Blog Banter articles at the bottom of this post!

This month’s banter leans a little, OK a lot, on the academic side. It comes to us from xiphos83 of A Misguided Adventurer, who asks the following: ” Victor Davis Hanson argues that western culture, comprising of ideals such as freedom, debate, capitalism, and consensual government, are what make western society so successful at waging war. These ideologies create a warrior who’s direct participation in government, ability to think freely, and desire to remain free, fights harder and is willing to suffer more than his conscripted foe. Though a military must remain a structured oligarchy to fight a war effectively, why in a world where military conflict is as familiar as breathing are there so few alliances that embrace these ideologies when governing their members?”

It seems that the responses for this topic have so far fallen into two categories:  either the blogger is adamant that the assertion about there being a lack of corps and alliances embracing these ideologies is incorrect, or they are amused at the attempt to place Hanson’s real world argument in the context of EVE Online’s fictional gaming universe.

First off, I had no idea who Hanson was.  So I went to a trusted source and read all about him.  That lead to reading some of his personal stuff and papers.  I have mixed feelings.  On the one hand, I have difficulty trusting a Banana Slug, but that may be personal bias that ESPN made them number 1 and only gave my alma mater the number 8 spot on the list of cool mascots.  On the other hand, he does say some thought provoking things.

To those who believe that all is democratic fun and games and Western Ways of Warfare in EVE, think again.  I belong to a corp that is run by an individual’s fiat – there is no council, no group decisions.  Other corps joining our alliance must abide by his final decisions – failure to do so results in the removal of your corp from the alliance.

That it is run that way is somewhat ironic, given that our corp leader and many of our vets are themselves ex-members of Atlas, which is itself run (or was at the time our corp was given the boot) by the same dictatorial bent that currently pervades our operations.

It is worth noting also that in EVE we are not dealing with governments – we are dealing with corporations, which, like in our real world, are either public or private companies, which themselves have various types of leadership, both individuals and boards and sometimes even straight democratic functions.  So the application of a real-world theory about nation-based warfare is stretched to limit when applied to virtual world reality of non nation-based warfare.  That the distinction between nation and non nation based warfare is lost on this Blog Banter is indicative of the fact that our entire nation, and even more relative, all of Western civilization, has failed to grasp an important lesson of the history of warfare and nations.  This failure is costing us virtual world angst in this case – and sadly, real world blood.

Despire this bizaare knowlege gap, there is a link, and a proof (of a sort) of Hanson’s theory in EVE Online – factional warfare.  This was an idea that many thought would fail because it did not offer any substational reason for playing.  And yet people still identified enough with in game entities, most centrally, in game NPC Empires – that they were and still are, willing to spend millions of ISK to defend the honor and good name of these Empires.  The purity of this experiment will shortly end with the introduction of factional LP and rewards.  That is not that I’m necessarily opposed to that change, but thinking about it in this way does give one pause, doesn’t it?  Is turning patriots into mercenaries a good thing?

Other Blog Banter 10 posts will be added here, just as soon as I can figure out where the spectral central post is located at.  Feedback, as always, is encouraged and welcome.

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5 thoughts on “Blog Banter 10?

  1. Pingback: The New Eden Diaries

  2. are you on CK’s blog banter email list, if not, you should shoot him an email and get on it and he’ll email you when the new banters come out.

    And for me at least, since I have everyone’s blogs in my google reader, I just add them myself to my post as they pop up 🙂

    But back on topic, enjoyable read 😀

    1. HarbingerZero

      Thanks Cyber,

      I am supposed to be on CK’s list, but I have no email from him. I also haven’t seen him post on the banter either. I posted and emailed last time around. But I know the last list was busier because of the contest, so perhaps I didn’t make it on the permanent list.

  3. I’ve always been a huge philosophy nut and am also prior military in RL, so I’m thoroughly enjoying this recent blog banter. You hit the nail on the head as to what my thoughts were from the first moment, about this being corporations and not governments or nations which puts a huge initial kink in the theory. Even in a democratic society, corporations within that society are run a bit differently than a government would run its country, however in a lot of ways, a country like the US for example is run in many ways like a corporation, just a different method of who gets put in charge. So this topic could get twisted in my different directions with neither one being right or wrong. Either way, excellente in pointing that out.

    1. HarbingerZero

      Thanks for the kind words Selina!

      I agree that most everything can look like a corporation, even the US government. This is not an accident, but it is a mistake. Every group in this country that wants to be “official” must register as a corporation, and must set itself up to run like one. That this might not be the best way to do things is apparently lost on many. (-:

      I think this is true in EVE as well. Perhaps player corporations are not the best structure for groups who wish to wage war. Why are all groups in EVE corporations? Is it a convenient SF name change from “guilds” or is it something more than that…

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